Getting To Your Retirement Exit

Ep 25- The Birth of The Side Hustle Retirement Plan

February 27, 2021 Jenny Jones Season 3 Episode 25
Getting To Your Retirement Exit
Ep 25- The Birth of The Side Hustle Retirement Plan
Getting To Your Retirement Exit
Ep 25- The Birth of The Side Hustle Retirement Plan
Feb 27, 2021 Season 3 Episode 25
Jenny Jones

Why the retirement narrative has changed and how COVID19 has created the birth of the Side Hustle Retirement Plan by The Financial Evangelist Jenny Jones

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Show Notes Transcript

Why the retirement narrative has changed and how COVID19 has created the birth of the Side Hustle Retirement Plan by The Financial Evangelist Jenny Jones

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Hello, welcome to my retirement exit episode twenty five, I'm your host, Jenny Jones, and today I want to talk to you about the side hustle retirement plan. Right.

And a lot of people say, well, what does that mean? Well, a couple of things. And before I get into it, I kind of want to give you a background of what I'm seeing in my industry and kind of give you an idea of what's going on.

So everybody knows or everybody that's been working with me know that I've been in the business for about twenty one years now. And I've noticed a trend. I've noticed a change. And not only for the professionals such as myself, but also the actual clients and or people like yourself needing advice and assistance. And I got to tell you, it was we were already leaning this way already. But I think with the new pandemic and a lot of different changes and some jobs may not even be returning with our professions.

I mean, basically your job that you probably used to do may not even exist anymore or a lot of alterations has been done to the job and you have had to make some changes and. So what has happened is a lot of people who probably thought they were going to retire or had it was working on this nice plan, this beautifully crafted plan said, hey, you know, I'm going to retire in this year. And that year I'm going to retire two thousand, you know, twenty five or twenty twenty six or something like that.

Those changes may you may have had to make some changes to adjust to what's going on just as a result of the pandemic. But what I've noticed, the trend that I'm starting to see is a lot of people may not be able to retire. Right. Just honestly flat out may not be able to retire. And I want to make a or help you come to a realization here in episode twenty five. I want to break down some things or some troops that you may need to face.

One of the troops and I think I talked about this in one of my other podcast, but one of the troops is if you be brutally honest with yourself instead of tricking yourself, you may realize after you do the numbers, you may realize that, you know what? I'm probably not going to be able to retire. And that's OK, because a lot of people may not be able to retire. In fact, I'm thinking more people as I'm running into I'm getting the conversation back that I'm noticing with the clients I'm working with is they're like, hey, you know, I don't think I'll ever be to retire for one.

I don't think I'm going to have enough money to be able to live the lifestyle that I want to live. I think you know about the housing crash and a couple of other things, a couple other alterations. It is disturbed my entire retirement plan altogether. So one of the things one of the shifts has been, hey, let me get let me work one pension, let me get to one pension and maybe even start possibly working on a second pension before I get to the realization that I'm not going to be able to retire.

And I may just just do something that I love doing for the rest of my life.

And I'm running to more people. More often than not of that is actually being the case.

And so with my practice, I've switched gears, wanting to be able to accommodate those those persons and being able to system and help them out a little bit more. Those who know me know my story. If you don't know my story, you know, I have an undergrad in business, marketing and digital media and I have a grad in financial management and accounting. And and I am I've been in this business retirement planning and stocks and bonds, been in debt for about twenty one years and putting retirement plans together.

So my prior life was I was doing a lot of business helping people with their businesses and showing them how to set them up, and I actually used to teach entrepreneurship at the local college probably about eight years ago to ten years ago.

I used to teach entrepreneurship and startup. And so what I did was I relied and went back on that because I assisted working on a entire curriculum for entrepreneurship for new students.

And I was very proud to have been selected to work. The school allowed me to participate and work along some other steam faculty to actually put together a entrepreneurship program from the ground up.

So I have a lot of experience in that area. And so what I did was I said, you know, most people that are coming to me now, they're part of their exodus. Hey, listen, I don't really want to retire, but I want to take my skills that I've gained over the last twenty five, 30 years to invest in and kind of transition into doing something, quite frankly. So, you know, I'll still take the company pension and or the four one K I'll use that bucket and or that part of that income or.

Oh I have a deferred compensation plan mixed in with a you know a full one K and or Roth.

So maybe they have about three different buckets. Right. And then we're pulling from. And so what I am doing is looking at the buckets and saying, OK, you'll have this much pretax income coming in and you have this much aftertax coming in. And what I don't recommend is for them immediately going to draw on their Social Security. I want them to maximize that. Sure. And everybody has this argument. Well, hey, I paid into it, right?

So I want to get my money out. That's fair. I would rather for you to start drawing on that when you hit your maximum age, that you can draw on it. And the longer you wait, the more of that payout would be. But the risk of drawing it too early, you run into a problem of you, your taxable income, because you're still working, being a lot higher than you thought, and then that ends up getting taxed up to about 80 percent.

So your Social Security, there's no sense in drawing Social Security to have a tax at 80 percent. Right. And so that's a whole nother podcast.

But that's something that a lot of people don't realize because they're not retired or they don't know that they're they they don't think that they can only make, I don't know, maybe fifteen thousand a year.

Right. So I can draw my Social Security, but I can only make on the side fifteen thousand a year even as a couple. Right. I think it's 20. I think it's twenty eight thousand as a couple or something like that. Something really ridiculous. I don't have the numbers right in front of me. I just do it doing a couple of calculations and I taught a workshop on it. And I know it's some ridiculous numbers below poverty that you can earn while you're on Social Security, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But if you are going to continue to work or pursue your lifestyle, I think I talk maybe three episodes ago where I talked about it, not so much being a no, but it being a lifestyle. So your retirement being an actual lifestyle is what you're working towards and not so much a no. So let me kind of go ahead and break down some different points that I've noticed, because, again, some people are coming to me and say, hey, listen, Jenny, I remember you talking about.

The hybrid model, meaning that, hey, I'm still going to work partially right, I'm not going to grind from 9:00 to 5:00 every single day, 40 hours a week, or in some instances 60 hours a week working for a high growth company. But I still want to give my services back. I still want to teach. I still want to consult on the side. And I may work three days a week. I may work two days a week.

I don't know. I'm running into that a lot. And so what I decided to do was I created a program. I've been working on that. That's the reason why you haven't heard from me in a while, is I've been working on a program. It's called The Side Hustle Retirement Plan and the Side Hustle Retirement Plan. You can actually find it at the side house or retirement plan dotcom. That's where you can kind of register for the program and you can take a look and see what I'm doing.

What I'm actually doing is trying to help people transition into small business ownership. Right. And so I'm trying to show them how to shift from becoming an employer. I mean, employee to an employer. Right. And or a small business owner. Right. And I want them to be in a position to run the business and not have the business run them. Right. Because if you've been an employee all your life, I like to tease people, say you're part of the system, right?

You're you're part of an employee system. You check the clock you punched in every morning, came home. But now it's a totally different ballgame when it comes to running an actual business. It's one thing to run a business. It's another thing to run a profitable business.

And that's what I put inside this program to help people transition through the side hustle retirement plan. And now so the Seidel's retirement plan, it allows you I still set up and I still do your retirement planning for you. I still put together a retirement plan. A full blown plan shows you what your different buckets are going to drip out to you. When I say buckets, if you listen to some of my other podcasts, you will see that I have I called them.

I identify them buckets or distribution buckets. What are we going to pool from? Right. I'm not going to pool from my for one, when am I going to pool for my my Roth, you know, and I call them and they have little faucets on the end and I have the money to you every single month in the form of a distribution which makes up your check. Right. The challenge with that is once you get on a fixed income.

Right. And having a discussion with my mom who is retired and I think I talked about this a couple of podcasts ago, is when my mom told me, she says, hey, listen, my medicine's going up. There's a medicine that the VA used to pay for your dad. They no longer pay for that. So we have to pay for that. So that's a new even though we're on a fixed income, that's a new expense that they have to pay for.

And so while you're retired, one of the things you're going to notice is it seems like everything continues to go up. Well, that's because inflation makes everything continue to go up. And so some people decided, hey, you know, I still kind of want to work. So if you still going to work in some shape, form or fashion, you need to learn how to properly run an actual business. And that's what I teach people. I take the curriculum that I helped write at a at a university, and I take the elements of what I've learned in my own business, growing my own business over the last twenty years.

And I use some of the elements from my marketing degree. I use some of the elements from my digital media degree and advertising and in know running Facebook ads. And although I use all of those elements, created a course around it. And I married it in with my retirement planning practice to combine the two to create the side house, a retirement plan. And so from that, I want to give you a couple of key elements from that that'll help you just in case you say, hey, you know, I'm fine, Jenny.

I don't need to look into your program any further. And you wanted to do it on your own. I wanted to give you at least three takeaways to kind of help you put that or kind of shape that for yourself. And I don't want to rob you of that. I want to give you some things, some of those things on your own. So one of the things you need to realize is.

You need to know your plan first, right? So plan your work, it's it's plan to work, then work your plan. Right. So I know that I'm going to retire in two years, right, or I know I'm going to retire in three years, I've already made up my mind. I've been to displace long enough. If I retire in three years, that puts me out at a certain certain age. That gives me a calculation of, you know, a multiplier of two point five, six of my overall salary.

A lot of people are doing those calculations in their head and on paper and it says, hey, listen, my time's up here. A new manager's coming in and I think I'm going to retire. The best thing to do is to plan your exit, right, is not just roll out of bed one day and say, you know what, I think I'm done right or there's a decision. You got passed over for promotion from someone else. Both you guys have been in a unit, but you've been in a unit twice as long as this other person and they promote the other person.

Those are things you can roll out of bed enough to say, you know what, I think I'm done here.

That's what you don't want to do, right? You don't want to say, hey, I've been wanting to start my practice and this is a good reason to do that. That is the one biggest mistake that I see a lot of people do. Right, because someone got passed over for promotion, you got partial promotion. You decide to say, hey, I'm retiring next week.

I'll show them. No, you're going to show yourself that that's not easy. Right. And in and in an economy that we have today, as we're speaking. Right.

Pandemic, let's talk about post pandemic, because once we get through this or once we continue to get through it, of course, things are going to look a little bit different. But we already talked about how competitive jobs will be and how a lot of people probably will just be running their own business. But if we did that, there may not be another job we can walk right into, even though we have the experience right. We call that the dirty word.

And I'll just say it here.

We call that age discrimination right where you go and you try to get another job reentry into the job field and you're older than everyone else. They don't tell you that when they deny you from when they don't hire you, they you just feel that they're discriminated against me of my age. That's a dirty word. I know it is. But this is my podcast and I can share that so that that does happen. Right. This segment, this person.

Sixty, right. Everybody here is twenty or thirty. There's no way they're going to fit in. They're not going to be a good dynamic for the team. You already know that you can add value. You're actually older than everybody. They're combined, actually children, actually, people that work there, the age of your children. Right. And they don't hire you. Right.

And all you want is another entry into a good paying job. And you don't want the responsibility of managing fifteen, sixteen, seventeen people or twenty people are thirty people for that matter. You just kind of want to slip in to compensate and or replace the income from the job that you rolled out of bed one morning someone else got the promotion for and you just quit. Right. So that's the first thing. Don't quit yet. Plan your exit. Right.

Plan your exit, you plan your exit so you can plan your work and then work your plan, right.

And so that's the first thing I wanted to do. And it's one of the things I talk about. And when I do the course, when I when I when I teach to the side house a retirement plan, don't quit.

Right. You plan your exit. Right. And it's funny, we used to play back a couple of years ago, I had another friend of mine, we said we'd play this game. This video game is like you had to plan your escape from prison, I don't know. But a little vulnerable here. But I'm just being honest with you.

It's kind of funny because we had a plan, every single move that we wanted to make to escape from this prison riot, it's like, hey, do you have enough sheets? Can we tied up sheets together or are we going to go through this vent? Are we going to go down that vent? It's the funniest thing, but nonetheless, it's the same thing. You have to plan your your exit, right? You can't just again, you can't just roll out of bed and say, hey, I'm quitting tomorrow.

You can't do, especially if you want to continue to work. Right. There's some people that have enough money that they can quit. What they find out is if they don't plan their retirement exit properly, they're going to run out of money. Right. Because if you don't have a certain amount of money coming in every single you know, every single month and everything around you continues to go up. Right. You don't have your your long term care in place.

Right. You don't have some other elements in place. Then you run, you run the risk of running out of money a lot sooner than you thought or you have enough money.

But because you don't know the fundamentals of trying to have your money keep up with inflation, your money starts to erode. Right.

Or you want to be so safe that you don't lose any money. You have it all in cash, you have it all in cash equivalents, and you still lose money because your money is not making enough, because the interest rates are not paying you enough to keep up with inflation.

So I think I talk about that in a couple of podcasts ago, where inflation is growing at three percent right now. The funds that you have your money in is getting about two and a half percent right now. I don't know, it's five and a half percent already taken from your your growth of your income, but then you have it in an investment that's only earning three percent.

Right. So you're losing money every single year. And those are things I talk about my clients all the time. Your money could be sitting and you can lose money without doing anything. Right, because everything you're not even making enough interest rates are so low, you're not even making enough money on the investments that you have just sitting. And so these are the fundamental things that we miss when we go and we say, hey, I'm going to plan my own retirement, that's fine.

Right? No one has a problem with that. Just understand some of the underlying fundamentals and being in this business. And over twenty years, I have seen the strangest things right.

You know, you just not prepared for them. And so my thing is, as you properly prepare and plan your exit, right. You want to do those things.

So that's one of the things that's one of the things I'll give to you, plan your work and work your plan. So that's that's point number one. Right. And anybody knows, listening to my podcast, you kind of got to write these things down and be prepared. OK, so now let me share with you point number two, right, so point number two is no your runway, right?

And so it's funny, I never realized it into living in San Francisco.

Right. When I used to live in San Francisco and I still fly out of San Francisco occasionally.

You can't you can't take off or land without seeing a body of water. Right. Sitting right there on a peninsula.

You sitting, it's like, oh, we're going to land and you're looking at the runway and you're like, are we going to make it or will we lift off before we hit the end of the the runway before it runs into the water? And that's about planning your runway, right. What is your time look like? Right. Planning your planning year. And I say plan your runway. Right. Know your runway is simply knowing your time frame and giving you a time frame to ramp up.


So even if you said, hey, I want to start a business. No one, you can't retire today and expect someone to call your phone tomorrow for a contract, that's just not going to happen, right, unless you already go into a retirement taking clients with you.

Right. That's been known to do. People will do that and says, hey, I let everybody know. I let all my clients know that the work that I'm doing for this company, I'm in a non compete agreement, that I will not do the same thing with them. But they all know I'm going to be doing the same thing. Right. And these these companies eventually come to you and you served them as a client. I find that very unlikely to happen.

But it could. But it doesn't happen. Right. You're always in a non compete company's not going to let you take clients with them. This is not going to happen. Right. And so you have to plan to develop your own clients and your own clientele and your own list of clients to call on. Right. And so that's part of knowing your runway because that's going to take some time. How long is that going to take before I see my first sale?

You have to plan that, right? You have to say, hey, you know what? I'm going to plan if I plan to retire in two years. Right. I'm going to start planning my business, getting my business license, getting my certifications, setting up my LLC, setting up my businesses. If I need to get a A if I need to get a logo developed, if I need to get a trademark developed, if I if I'm writing a book, do I want that to launch there so much that goes into going into your own business.

Right. You have to to put that runway together. And that's one of the things that I do. I put together a runway runway or I call it a roadmap. And by the way, I set it up in my software, as I call it, a roadmap. These are the things we're going to do. These are the time frames we're going to do them and we must accomplish these by these time frames. I'm not going to let you move to the next phase until you accomplish these things in this time frame.

And so a lot of my clients get mad at me because it's like, hey, you know, I shouldn't be able to do this whatever. I don't have time to do it as is what you're going to have to do it, because this is your business that you want to start, right? I already run a business. This is your business and you want to start and I know what it takes to start and run a business. Right. I've done this right.

And so and I've helped thousands of people launch their own business.

And I know what the formula is. And they're like, well, OK, OK. And so I help them put their runway together. So that's one thing you're going to need to learn how to do is put your runway together if I retire today.

Right. What is it going to look like? Right. And before I get my first client and you don't want to be where you're at the San Francisco airport and you're trying to take off and you run out of runway.

Right. Because you didn't have enough time. Because you didn't plan properly. Because if you ever if you don't believe me, look up the San Francisco airport.

If you're not from California, look up to San Francisco airport and look where the runway ends and or where it starts. You can Google it and you're going to see that it's surrounded by a body of water. If you don't take off in time, you will run into the water. Right. It's the weirdest thing, right. Glad I'm not going to fly from there because I get these weird things that happen. And it's funny, even when you're landing there, you're taking off as well.

I think some other airports that do the same thing anyway. It's the weirdest thing to me. But no, you're runway, right? No how much time you have and plan that properly before you see your first customer.

All right.

The third and final thing that I want to give to you as I get to my students in the side hustle retirement plan. Right. I'm trying to plan your exit.

The third and final thing I want to give to you is reduce your mistakes. Right? Get professional help to reduce your mistakes.

No, I'm not saying hire people that take your money. Right, because I can attest to that.

There's a lot of people out there that do take your money and you get nothing in return. And the funny thing about it is when you're out there trying to start your business or establish your business, you don't know what you don't know. Right. I've been an employee all my life, and I don't know that I need to get this. I don't know that I need this fifteen hundred dollar thing here. I don't know that I need to spend two thousand dollars for a website.

Right. Because you don't need to spend two thousand dollars for a website. Those are one of those are some of the things that I help my clients with. I help them establish a website, set that up, we get that established. We understand what their value proposition is. We look at their selling points and we we try to position them for success because if they're successful, then they remain a client of ours. Right. And we're able to see them through and get them into their retirement and manage their money as well.

So there's a lot of benefits to us making sure that you get off to a good start. You know, your runway we have. What's your plan, but reducing your mistakes is one of the biggest things that that goes over looks because. You cannot afford to make mistakes going into your own business with a guaranteed income that's going away. So the best thing you need to do is it's the most important thing you need to do is reduce your mistakes because you can't afford them.


So that comes when you do it, when you leave your job and says, hey, I've already put in my notice, I'm out of here, I've already put in my paperwork, I'm leaving my job in 30 days.

That becomes real. Write a check will not be coming in, not at the size that you had when you were actually retired and when you were actually working and retirement checks coming in. It's going to look a lot different than what was hitting your bank account on the first of 15 or once a month with your own company. Right? I mean, when you with you working for another company, these will now be checks that you have to depend on as far as retirement.

And so you want to reduce your mistakes as much as possible because in business for yourself, the mistakes that you make can be costly that you won't be able to recover from. Here's what makes it difficult.

When you retired to recover from mistakes, you can't put that money back because you can't go back to work. Right?

You've already said, hey, I'm burning, I'm burning the ships. I mean, I'm burning the boats. We're going to get to the shore and we're not going back. We're not going back to work. So as soon as we get to the shore, as soon as we land on the beach, we're going to burn all the boats and we're not going back to work. Well, once you've made that decision, you can't go back to the beach to look for a boat, to try to get on the go back to work because you've burned that boat.

Right. And that's why you have to reduce your mistakes. Right. Keep them very minimal. And I think seeking out professional advice that is affordable.

That's why you make the decisions and you plan your work and know your runway before you actually exit your actual workspace. Right. You have to know those things going into retirement because you may say you haven't told anybody at work and since listen, I haven't told anybody at work, but I think I'm going I think I'm leaving on next January. Right. And this is you you having to talk with yourself or you have to talk with your your best friend and or your spouse.

It's had to have gone in January, but you don't tell anybody, but you make that decision when you start trying to put your plan together.

You reduce your mistakes, because if you start making mistakes me like I thought I was going to be on January, I made this one mistake. I hired this guy. He said he's going to be on my website. And I paid him five thousand dollars and he and he skipped off. You know, he skipped town with my money. Right. Please don't tell me you don't know that that happens. Right. So that happens, right? He skips town.

You paid five thousand dollars. Did you set aside to get your business started with, hey, I need to set up my website to pay five thousand dollars. You don't know that five thousand dollars is way too much for a website, right. You don't know that because you've never been in business for yourself and you've worked for someone else all your life. So you say, hey, I think that's what it should cost to build a website when actuality you may not even meet a website.


Most of my clients, I set them up real thin. I keep their overhead low. You may just need a landing page, a one page sales page to introduce yourself and to inquire. You may want to put a calendar on there. If someone wants to set an appointment with you or something like that, that may be all you need. That's not five thousand dollars. But because you don't know that you've already made a mistake, that's why you have to reduce your mistakes.

That's just one mistake, right? Or you go and you start promoting yourself. Right.

The biggest mistake, and I'll just give you this one, I'll throw this in for free as I end this one is because you're not properly protected with your trademark and or your logo and your name.

You may go out and start building a name for yourself, start putting your name on social media and say, man, everybody knows who Martha's Garden is or whoever whatever you decide to have your name to be in, you build up the name, you get thousands of followers, right?

And you says, hey, I'm ready. I'm ready to retire, ready to quit. I'm ready to to to go into my second act. Right. Then someone comes along, they see you, they're watching your growth, your growth is hybrid, and this person's really got it together to doing a lot, they come trademark your name underneath you.

We call that trademark jacking, right? So you've already built your name up. This is these are some of the mistakes. I probably have about 50 mistakes that I may actually put out, something to share people. Some of the mistakes that you can make or try to avoid. I may do that. I don't know. I may even add that to the class. I normally just help my clients avoid the mistakes when we're putting together the side hustle retirement plan.

But I may need to put out something. One of the major mistakes is blowing up your brand too fast without protecting your brand.

And you get trademark jacked right where someone comes in, they see your grow, they see all these followers, all of your followers are now your assets.

Intellectual property. Right. Sweat equity. Right.

All these things that you've done to build your name and your positioning in the market.

But you'd never trademark anything. Someone comes behind you. They open up a trademark in your name does using the same exact name. Right.

But they actually went through and did the paperwork on it, which those are some of the things we help help people do and put that together as well. You do all of that. Someone comes in, get your trademark. They get it approved. Come back to you, the same person that stole your trademark, come back to you and say, hey, you have a cease and desist order. We're like, what a cease and desist, what do you mean?

I've been Janet's gardener for the last year and a half. Like, yeah, well, I own the trademark. So you need to get a cease and desist or you can pay me. You know, a million dollars, right, I'm being it's funny, though, actually, for a couple of thousand, but it feels like a million to you because that's a mistake you did not avoid. Right. So this is hey, I only want I would ask you for seventy five thousand, but I only want twenty five thousand.

Right. Of twenty five thousand.

Seventy five thousand. Ten thousand.

A thousand to me is more money than you expected to play in to pay in your quest to start your own business.

But that those are one of the mistakes that can happen. Right. Someone could copyright you. Right. And so that's what we call it. And so I just wanted to share those three points with you as you trying to get to your retirement exit. I'm I'm going to have a lot of things coming up. I'm going to be interviewing guests on the show. We're going to start doing that here probably the next two episodes or so.

I'm going to start doing that and I'm going to start working on a project. I've already started working on it. I'm probably nearly complete. That'll be done by the end of the second quarter of twenty twenty one.

It'll be my retirement exit TV right where I'm going to start doing some live, not live, but I'm going to be having a couple of workshops that you can actually pull up and seeds and workshops and seminars and some interviews with actual people who's actually been able to transition into retirement exit.

And I'll be talking with them and discussing with them and I'll be sharing some secrets from there. So that's something to look for. So if you subscribe to our channel, if you subscribe to this podcast, you are going to know when that's going to happen. That's going to be a major game changer for you or anybody trying to get to their retirement exit.

So, again, I've already started sign ups for the side house, a retirement plan. I've been overwhelmed. So be patient with me, but we will get to you. We will try to get you into the class and or the course if you are interested in that. So, again, the side hustle, retirement plan, dotcom, you come there, you can get on the waiting list and get registered for that and or I'm still doing retirement check.

So retirement chat, dotcom, if you just have a quick question. Hey, Jenny, I got a ton of forms in the mail today. Tell me what they mean. Right. That is the most affordable way that you can work with me. I've made that. I put that together just in case you have these questions. Are these one offs or you want to have me in your back pocket on speed dial? That is the easiest way to work with me or get entry into working with me in my company.

It's retirement chat, dot com. You register for that? I think I'm running a promo on that as well. So you have to get to the website and see what that promo is. But I got something special for you.

So again, this has been Jenny Jones for getting to my retirement exit. I thank you. And I want to thank all the listeners who has been listening. I want to thank you all for all the downloads. We've been tremendously successful. What you need to know is if I don't do an episode, it's not because I'm avoiding you. I love you because you guys have supported me from the start. But it is because I am doing more preparation to create things and vehicles for you to work with me beyond the podcast.

Right. And those things allow you to work with me one on one or personally or get into one of my coaching programs or give one of my curriculum packages. So that has been overwhelming. But that is really my passion, is to grow people through curriculum and take them to step by steps and to hold their hand. That is more of my passion and anything. So I do that first.

The podcast is something I just wanted to do to reach a different level of audience. And those who may not know me and know my practice. It has been a pleasure to work with you here on Episode twenty five action packed episode.

Take care. Hope all is going well. Be safe out there. Goodbye for now.